Anime today

[The Shadowscythe]

Well, after a VGcats comic (lost in translation) it got me thinking about the differences in anime compared to its heyday (the classic stuff back in the 80's/early 90's) to now, and is it just me - or has it lost something.

It seems almost as if the anime that we get today has been gutted away (ala the comic) they hire voice actors who never actually ACT in any way shape or form, i mean you can tell the difference between the anime of the 80's/90's (things like dominion tank police, patlabour, guyver) to things today (Ugh . . . pokemon, one piece, yu-gi-oh) and that part of the american anime industry has lost its "soul" so to speak, its become more about money than entertainment - as anime is now mostly seen as the "geeks" entertainment . .

Ugh, when the hell did this happen, and why? :iffy:

[Robbydude]

Id say Inuyasha would fill the hole

[Leto]

It's only because better animes are harder to find.
Yes, there has been an increase in crappy animes recently, but that's only becasue people are aiming them more towards kids now. "Cos when it's a cartoon it automatically becomes kiddy."
Sure, I'm going to show my little cousin some scenes from Hellsing.
And the translations screw things up to. Most of the Shonen Jump comics are good, but 4kids have practically ruined the anime for me (One Piece and Shaman King).
Yeah, i feel strongly on this subject. But it isn't that there aren't any good animes anymore, it's just that you have to look harder to see them.

[Karai Pantsu]

Nah... the quality of anime hasn't gone downhill. Just the quantity of IMPORTED anime.

Back in the day, a series had to be AWESOME to get even a possibility of a Stateside release. Things like Potlabor, Akira, the Ghibli films, and series like Slayers and Golgo 13 were of the calibur necessary to be lisenced. Now a days, EVERYTHING gets lisenced, regadless of quality.

During the 80's and 90's, there was still crappy anime released. Just none of us knew about it.

[Travisty]

Also, everything looks better when you look back on it, it's just one of those human conditions. For instance, the old TMNT show was probably just as bad as a kids show today, but since we grew up with it we can't really be an objective party. The other day my sister's friends who are graduating high school this year were talking about how cool the original Power Rangers show was, and how much better it was than the newer ones.

[chibibar]

Well.. the technology is not as advance in making anime back then as it is now... hand drawn cel, slide by slide... so the acting has to make up the difference (and voice) to really sell the product..

With current technology of producing anime without Cel... well.. its gets VERY flashy and less substance over time :( but at least not everyone is wasting good technology and still produce some decent anime.

[Seraphna]

It's a very common misconception that somehow anime today has done anything but get better. Mostly that derives from, as Scott showed us, the rape and disembowling most anime gets when it gets imported to a TV syndicated US series. Fact is, the Japanese acting is still very top notch, as Anime is a primary source of entertainment in Japan, not just a marketing ploy like it is over here. Japanese voice actors are highly revered and treated with the same amount of worship and awe as we treat many live action actors here in the states.

If you feel anime is getting worse, please, go watch some fansubs and get back to us.

[echoes]

dudes only losers watch dubs lol

But seriously, there seems to be plenty of good stuff out there. So just look a little harder, and learn to use bittorrent.

[Leto]

But fansubs aren't always that good.
I've seen two versions of the last episode of FMA. One was the actual story, and the other was one that had a fan had taken creative liscence with and made completely different. Not to mention he changed the main characters name.

[Otaking]

dudes only losers watch dubs lol

But seriously, there seems to be plenty of good stuff out there. So just look a little harder, and learn to use bittorrent.

Fansubs aren't without there major problems either. You have times when the subtitles get off track, the audio gets off track, very bad English grammar, misspelling of names, and just badly structuerd of subtitles. And there are some dubs that are of excellent quality. Take Voices Of A Distant Star for instance. Dispite popular belife the dialogue is virtually exact to the Japanese dialouge.

And there were just as many bad animes in the 80s and earily 90s as there are now. It's just that since anime was unknown back then you only got the very best (although Akira is a pretty bad anime if you actually think about it). Sicne anime is much more popular these days companies can afford to bring over sub-par animes along with the great ones.

I'm just really happy anime as progressed from the badly fansubbed VHS tapes that were only available at cons to regular DVDs. Same with manga too. Use to be that you paid about $10-15 for a twelve page manga, know you get something like 150-200 pages for the same price if not cheaper.

[aniki]

dudes only losers watch dubs lolGuess that makes me a loser. Personally, my enjoyment of an anime is more important to me than the stigma and elitism that comes from watching it in a language I can neither understand nor relate to.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned for thinking that if you call yourself an anime fan you should support the industry, but I think this "who cares about what's licensed, just download it" attitude is doing to be the death of the anime industry (even in Japan), for a couple of reasons.

You may not think the Japanese get much from the sales of anime in the United States or elsewhere, but the licensing fees these days are what's keeping the studios in business. Piracy in Asia has the industry there hemoragging cash, and a large part of the influx they get for developing new series comes from US companies buying the rights.

Secondly, more and more shows are being financed in part by American distributors. ADV Films and FUNimation have started paying a lot towards the production of new anime. There's been a little skepticism that this is going to result in more and more "toned-down" and Americanised anime due to their input, but to be honest since America is such an important market for the Japanese you'd be seeing that even without any "hands-on" interaction from the American companies. And as long as ADV keep supporting non-mainstream titles like Kino's Journey, I think it's safe to say they understand what fans want in a series.

The Japanese economy is in recession, and has been for a long time, and your cartoons are not exempt from the financial stranglehold that business is in over there.

If you don't pay for anime, you can't expect it to last long. The smart thing to do, is buy what's worth buying, and send a message to the companies that you want to see uncut anime (which the vast majority is on DVD these days - TV censorship will always be a problem thanks to the puritan Right), and you want to see good anime.

It's remarkably immature and short-sighted to assume that you can just steal anime and nobody will suffer. Piracy is killing anime, and if you're contributing to the demise of anime by stealing it, then you're hardly in a position to complain about what the companies do to make every cent they can from the people who do care enough to buy it.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

All that stuff.

That's why I love you.
<3
And because you like RvB. But yeah. =^.^=

[Seraphna]

The greatest part, is with the last three replies, he wasn;t even being serious aboutt he dubs remark. Pays to actually read a whole post doesn't it?

I watch fansubs just as much as I watch dubs, I like to relax and enjoy the artwork in an anime as much as I like to enjoy the acting. It allr eally depends onw hat I have and what my options are.

[Vicious27]

Certainly don't think the "soul" of anime in America has been destroyed but rather it's been greatly homoginized

And when I say that it's a reference to the fact that we've been bombarded with Pokemon and Dragonball for some time now and it's made anime look ultra childish. But then again in a "mainstream" light theres no way humanly possible to do anime the right way in America, it's all about comparing social norms between Japan and America and how they are more lienent on certain things (acceptable violence and nudity). Hence why you get certain animes getting shown on a saturday morning in the US that get hacked to bits

Thats what the resident artist was trying to say with the recent comic on One Piece. Now I know nothing of the magna or the show but from what I understand what they're showing here is extremely toned down compared to it's original run. From what I heard Read Or Die is the same story. I know it's not anime per se but years back Todd McFarlane was initially offered to do Spawn on saturday mornings and very promplty turned it down because he knew they would more or less castrate his story and vision

But I don't think the soul of anime in America is dead, part of that is where Adult Swim has been a blessing (mind you though just part). I've been greatfull that we've recieved Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, X, Fullmetal Alchemist, Gundam Wing, Gundam Seed to name a few and I'm sure there are others who feel the same

[Otaking]

The greatest part, is with the last three replies, he wasn;t even being serious aboutt he dubs remark.

Weither he was joking or not is kinda irrelevent, at least to my point. As I've stated dozens and dozens of times in various sub vs. dub threads at other forums I go to, both have there ups and downs. Though the downs for dubs in decresing as of late thanks to the translators doing a much better job.

[Seraphna]

Even greater, this somehow got turned into a sub vs. dubs thread for no reason.

[Travisty]

I could do one better and say it doesn't matter, because anime sucks.


Am I joking? Am I not? Let's have a lengthy discussion about it.

[Seraphna]

Let's talk about it in another thread... ._.

[Korlee]

I have to go abit with Vicious and Aniki on a few things.

I don't think anime has gotten worse. The translations have gotten worse. They take perfectly good animes and just try to milk it for money. So it makes it harder to find the good ones. Alot of people will see a bad translated episode of One Piece and then never go and see a fan-sub. Which then lumps it in with the ones that are crappy and will never see a version not so butchered.

I also agree with there is alot more. So we do see some crappy animes leaking in. While before there was just lots of left over good ones to pick from and translate.

There was also more time to do it in. Today, people don't want to wait from saturday to saturday. They want it now. Right way to watch it all and move on. Which also causes alot of problems.

As for buying. I do send a message. I do buy what is worth buying but when they charge an ungodly price just because its "anime". I'm left with the choice of downloading or ripping because i can't afford it. I'm not going to spend all my money on just one series alone because they choose to overcharge. I do not buy bad translations either. I will download a fansub if they ruined it. For the most part though if its good and not overpriced. I will try to buy it.

Theres alot of reasons and most are pretty stupid and an easy fix but they don't make money. They spend it. So its not going to happen any time soon.

[aniki]

Where did this theory come from that fansubs are good?

I've seen many, many more poor spelling and grammar errors in the few fansubs I've seen than in the vast majority of legitimate anime I've bought.

This got me more than a little angry, too:
They take perfectly good animes and ... [make] it harder to find the good ones. Alot of people will see a bad translated episode of One Piece and then never go and see a fan-sub. Which then lumps it in with the ones that are crappy and will never see a version not so butchered.
Why should people see fansubs? You make it sound like that's the only way to see uncut anime. The vast, vast majority of American-released DVDs are uncut (and any cut stuff usually has an uncut alternative anyway), and often the DVD release will include parts cut from the Japanese TV release (link Gantz and FullMetal Panic? Fumoffu, for instance) - meaning that the DVD actually is more uncut than a fansub from the Japanese TV run.

This "I can't afford it" bullshit is starting to get on my nerves too. I can't afford a car, but I'm not about to go steal one because of that. I don't need anime any more than I need a car, so I don't see why one should be seen as "okay" to steal, while another one isn't.

I will download a fansub if they ruined it.I've never seen a DVD translation (apart from kiddy anime like Pokemon that's not worth buying anyway) that "ruined" the anime. Some of them have taken liberties I don't necessarily agree with, but 99% of the time the original intent of the Japanese script is left intact. There's far too reactionary a segment of anime fandom that sees any modification as a terrible crime against the artform (yet stealing it isn't bad, apparently), when in fact it's often totally necessary to make adjustment to carry over the intent of the line into English.

Suffixes are a prime example of this - for instance, "-chan". There's really no accurate English substitute for that, and while you could argue that it can be left in, that's a bad translation - because you're not translating it, you're leaving the Japanese there.

The problem with anime fandom isn't all the companies. It's largely the reactionary militant "hardcore" fanbase of people who feel like these Japanese cartoons are something they have a right to get, when in fact it's entertainment and therefore a privelidge.

You do not "deserve" anime in any way, shape or form, and the sheer lack of gratitude for a good release (and there are loads of 'em) is astounding, compared to the crucifixion these guys get when they make the occasional little mistake.

[Otaking]

You do not "deserve" anime in any way, shape or form, and the sheer lack of gratitude for a good release (and there are loads of 'em) is astounding, compared to the crucifixion these guys get when they make the occasional little mistake

Yea, I agree. It's like I always say when someone complains about the VAs in an anime, "Just be glad that anime isn't the way it was way back when all you got was a very badly fansubbed VHS copy with bad quailty pictures and the only way you could watch it was at a con and to own it would cost a nice nefty sum."

The ONLY time I would promote a fansub is if the show isn't gonna be released in the States, or anywhere else. Take the anime Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou for instance. It's a fantastic OAV, but it's chances of getting licensed are slim to none. Another one is Comedy. Another fantastic anime but with almost no chance of getting licenesed. These are the few examples of animes I'd tell someone to get the fansub of.

EDIT: Also about the "I cant' afford it" crap I've heard alot of. If you can't afford the hobby then find another one.

[Karai Pantsu]

Wow.. this thread went from "Let's talk about the decline of Anime" to "Fansubbing is fucking piracy, and you should all burn in hell, you sorry sacks of rancid feces. BURN!" in under 3 posts. NEW RECORD!

[Otaking]

Wow.. this thread went from "Let's talk about the decline of Anime" to "Fansubbing is fucking piracy, and you should all burn in hell, you sorry sacks of rancid feces. BURN!" in under 3 posts. NEW RECORD!

Thanks to fansubs and bootlegs and the people who but them, anime has been on a decline.

[aniki]

Wow.. this thread went from "Let's talk about the decline of Anime" to "Fansubbing is fucking piracy, and you should all burn in hell, you sorry sacks of rancid feces. BURN!" in under 3 posts. NEW RECORD!
Fansubs are piracy. There's no grey area when it comes to copyright theft, and the fact that until now there's been a blind spot on the part of the Japanese when it comes to unlicensed stuff is irrelevant - the increasing importance of foreign markets will mean they'll crack down on internet piracy a lot more.

As for "you should all burn in hell", I don't think that watching fansubs automatically makes you a bad person. What I object to are the people who only watch fansubs, and point-blank refuse to contribute to the industry and artform that they claim to be fans of. There's a deep hypocrisy there, and I don't see why I should accept people who will apparently not, under any circumstance, contribute to the anime industry, and then blame the American companies for the decline of anime.

Fansubs, or rather the increasingly large segment of anime "fans" who rely solely on fansubs for their entertainment, are killing the anime industry, and I'd be surprised to see the artform last another five or ten years if the rampant piracy continues.

[Karai Pantsu]

Thanks to fansubs and bootlegs and the people who but them, anime has been on a decline.

HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA, what?!

That logic makes negative sense. It begins to make accepted things AROUND it less sensical.

Anime has gotten no less and no more bad than it always has been. It's just that THERE'S MORE OF IT, so there MORE BAD to go around.

There will never be a Golden Age of Anime, because back then, your access to it was limited to what was lisenced and what was available at the video store down the street. For every good series, there's AT LEAST half a dozen other mediocre or downright awful ones that go unlisenced and forgotten.

And don't even try the "They're taking money from the japanese makers of anime, so they have to make more to cover their loses." When an anime is lisenced, the AMERICAN company takes all the profits from DVD sales and such. The Japanese owners see a lisencing fee that never changes.

Fansubs, or rather the increasingly large segment of anime "fans" who rely solely on fansubs for their entertainment, are killing the anime industry, and I'd be surprised to see the artform last another five or ten years if the rampant piracy continues.

*cough*MP3 ripping*cough*

I still see music around........

And yes, I know, there's been a crackdown recently... but it still continutes unabated on decentralized trackers and P2P programs. Piracy DOES take a bit out of corporation's profits, but it won't kill them entirely. Anime will always be around, even after whatever "fad" that made anime mainstream dies off and we're back to the anime world of the 90's, anime will still be around.

[Otaking]

HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA, what?!

That logic makes negative sense. It begins to make accepted things AROUND it less sensical.

Anime has gotten no less and no more bad than it always has been. It's just that THERE'S MORE OF IT, so there MORE BAD to go around.

There will never be a Golden Age of Anime, because back then, your access to it was limited to what was lisenced and what was available at the video store down the street. For every good series, there's AT LEAST half a dozen other mediocre or downright awful ones that go unlisenced and forgotten.

And don't even try the "They're taking money from the japanese makers of anime, so they have to make more to cover their loses." When an anime is lisenced, the AMERICAN company takes all the profits from DVD sales and such. The Japanese owners see a lisencing fee that never changes.

I wasn't talking about the quailty of anime, I was talking about sales. Although if bootleg sales increase as they are now then the quality could drop. Recently more people are buying bootlegs and burning fansubs to DVDs becuase it's cheaper than buying the actually DVDs. And if the anime is unlicensed then yes the Japanese creators are having money taken away from them. If it is licensed then it's taking money away from the American (or wherever) companies.



*cough*MP3 ripping*cough*

I still see music around........

Music has a much larger fanbase that anime and is alot cheaper for people to buy. Anime still has a relativly small fan base in the States.

[aniki]

When an anime is lisenced, the AMERICAN company takes all the profits from DVD sales and such. The Japanese owners see a lisencing fee that never changes.
Actually, that's not true. If the Americans and Japanese are co-producers, there can be a royalty scheme in place for the Japanese to get some of the US profits.

Besides, I don't see any fansub fans buying any Japanese discs, so they're not supporting the anime industry either way.

*cough*MP3 ripping*cough*
I still see music around........
And yes, I know, there's been a crackdown recently... but it still continutes unabated on decentralized trackers and P2P programs. Piracy DOES take a bit out of corporation's profits, but it won't kill them entirely. Anime will always be around, even after whatever "fad" that made anime mainstream dies off and we're back to the anime world of the 90's, anime will still be around.
The difference with music is, that there are still a lot of people (I'd say a large majority) who don't download anything, or at least anything significant, illegally. The percentage of anime fans vs music fans who engage in illegal filesharing as their primary source of getting the entertainment in question is much, much higher. I don't know any anime fans who've never downloaded anything, and most of them still rely heavily on the internet to get their anime. Plus, the music industry has done much more to make people aware that downloading is illegal, and there are enough people who will abide by the rules, faced with that kind of threat, that music piracy doesn't have as noticeable an impact.

Additionally, the financial outlay for producing an album isn't anywhere near that of a 26-episode series (which can cost more than $100,000 per episode, depending on quality). And, if you talk to (or know any) bands, they'll tell you that their main source of income is actually from live gigs and merchandise rather than the albums, the profit from which often gets cut largely in favour of the record company. A musician can still make money by performing, but if an anime DVD doesn't make profit, the artists won't get paid.

[Vicious27]

Ok enough with any incessant whining about MP3 downloading, file sharing, Napster, Lars Ulrich, ect ect ect

I've said this a million times over and I'll still stand by it, if people have such a huge problem with all of this then they may as well of just banned the blank audio tape years back

And in the case of anime, how incredibly difficult is it to get any tune on an anime soundtrack in comparison to your typical on the shelf recording?

[Luftwaffle]

Wow, aniki, you're here too! This is awesome. :D

Vicious, they can't ban blank media. What would I record my lectures on? :yikes:

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Suffixes are a prime example of this - for instance, "-chan". There's really no accurate English substitute for that, and while you could argue that it can be left in, that's a bad translation - because you're not translating it, you're leaving the Japanese there.


Though there are cases where it can't be left out. Example: Excel Saga. Constantly Excel refers to Hyatt as "Ha-chan" (and in the manga they refer to Excel as "Eh-chan" and Elgala as "El-chan") because Excel is Hyatt's superior--in theory--and the "fact" that they're supposed to be high school girls also bonds the necessity of the suffix "-chan." Also Excel talks a mile a minute so actually making full pronunciations would cause anime fanboys' head to explode. Scanners style.

[Vicious27]

Vicious, they can't ban blank media. What would I record my lectures on? :yikes:

Well the whole point to that statement is that if theres such a problem with the sharing and copying of music, then they may as well just go to the extreme of banning all blank media. I was copying albums and songs for years before Napster came around, but back then it just didn't seem to be a problem for some reason. And somehow I don't think I was the only one

And add onto it, just like with anything else in life, the more illegal you make it the more that people will try to get their hands on it

Thats just how absurd the whole Napster saga was to me

[Luftwaffle]

Though there are cases where it can't be left out. Example: Excel Saga. Constantly Excel refers to Hyatt as "Ha-chan" (and in the manga they refer to Excel as "Eh-chan" and Elgala as "El-chan") because Excel is Hyatt's superior--in theory--and the "fact" that they're supposed to be high school girls also bonds the necessity of the suffix "-chan." Also Excel talks a mile a minute so actually making full pronunciations would cause anime fanboys' head to explode. Scanners style.
Didn't Excel Saga actually break the voice of the original dub actress who was playing Excel? I swear I read somewhere that the original voice was forced by her manager to stop so that she didn't sustain permanent voicebox damage. I'll have to look that up.

[aniki]

I was copying albums and songs for years before Napster came around, but back then it just didn't seem to be a problem for some reason.
It wasn't as big a problem back then - that kind of copying was largely a lossy process, with degrading quality as copies were spread and recopied. On top of that, you didn't have thousands upon thousands of people handing out copies to thousands upon thousands of anonymous strangers across the world.

Didn't Excel Saga actually break the voice of the original dub actress who was playing Excel? I swear I read somewhere that the original voice was forced by her manager to stop so that she didn't sustain permanent voicebox damage. I'll have to look that up.
Yeah, Jessica Calvello was replaced by Larissa Walcott about halfway through. She'd been warned by her doctor that it could cause permanent damage, so she had to quit the role.

[Luftwaffle]

Well the whole point to that statement is that if theres such a problem with the sharing and copying of music, then they may as well just go to the extreme of banning all blank media. I was copying albums and songs for years before Napster came around, but back then it just didn't seem to be a problem for some reason. And somehow I don't think I was the only one

And add onto it, just like with anything else in life, the more illegal you make it the more that people will try to get their hands on it

Thats just how absurd the whole Napster saga was to me
I hear ya. :)

[Luftwaffle]

It wasn't as big a problem back then - that kind of copying was largely a lossy process, with degrading quality as copies were spread and recopied. On top of that, you didn't have thousands upon thousands of people handing out copies to thousands upon thousands of anonymous strangers across the world.
That and VHS actually had lower quality than broadcast television. How sad is that?

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Yeah, Jessica Calvello was replaced by Larissa Walcott about halfway through. She'd been warned by her doctor that it could cause permanent damage, so she had to quit the role.

OMFG. X_X
I love JC. =^_^=
Tiffany didn't tell me why they switched halfway through... or maybe she did and I don't remember. Murr.
Anyway, she does a great job as Tsukino Miyazawa in His and Her Circumstances.

[Luftwaffle]

Kare Kano is sitting on my shelf unopened. I hope Right Stuf did a good job with it. I'd be pissed if they messed it up. Then, I'd have to go buy it from Gainax: Cruel Mistress of all Fanbois.

[Vicious27]

[QUOTE=aniki]It wasn't as big a problem back then - that kind of copying was largely a lossy process, with degrading quality as copies were spread and recopied. On top of that, you didn't have thousands upon thousands of people handing out copies to thousands upon thousands of anonymous strangers across the world.

But the point is that it was just as easy. Back then I never cared about "perfect" audio quality and I doubt many others did either

We're starting to get slightly off topic here

[aniki]

Kare Kano is sitting on my shelf unopened. I hope Right Stuf did a good job with it.
Kare Kano has the best subtitling job I have ever seen. There's so much on-screen text, and it's all handled perfectly.

The dub's pretty awesome too - Liam O'Brien as Asaba is hilarious.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Kare Kano is sitting on my shelf unopened. I hope Right Stuf did a good job with it. I'd be pissed if they messed it up. Then, I'd have to go buy it from Gainax: Cruel Mistress of all Fanbois.

Ooooh they did. It's an extremely excellent dub, trust me. It's one of my favorites. I particularly like how Aya was voiced--Aya=<3--and the only one that might rub you the wrong way is the dad character... but he'll start to make you laugh by the goofiness of it later on.

I enjoyed the tasteful way Gainax did the... the one scene that I don't want to mention because it will send people off on a tangent. But yeah, they did gud there. The subtitles for signs and such--and even the normal subtitles--are softened and well done and don't intrude whatsoever. I was, needless to say, very impressed.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

The dub's pretty awesome too - Liam O'Brien as Asaba is hilarious.

Asapin scares me. =_=

[Luftwaffle]

Excellent. :D

This pleases me. Ok, time to stop hijacking the thread, I'll behave. :shifty:

[aniki]

But the point is that it was just as easy. Back then I never cared about "perfect" audio quality and I doubt many others did eitherIt wasn't just as easy - or at least, widespread distribution wasn't. The fact remains, people will always find a way to copy and share music, videos or whatever - the impact is only noticeable when you have thousands of people only relying on the copies, rather than paying for the proper thing.

As for "perfect" audio quality - you're right. I doubt you'd be able to notice much difference between a second- and third-generation copy, but take that to the 40th or 50th generation copy runs you'd need to do to copy it enough for everyone you share music with online, and you'd barely be able to hear the music. That is the best thing for the end users of digital filesharing, and simultaneously the worst thing for the record companies who rely on CD sales to make money.

This is getting off-topic to an extent, so I'll just make a point about how this relates to anime.

While bands can make up the revenue on merchandise royalties and live performance admissions, the vast majority of animators in Japan will never see a single yen from merchandise, and can't do live shows. You can make more working in a convenience store in Japan than you can as an animator; anybody who's still working in the industry is doing so just because they love it so much.

There's no good coming from people who download all their anime. If you want to use fansubs as a judge of what's likely to be coming up worth buying, that's one thing. It's entirely another to steal it all, and still claim to be a fan because you buy the occasional Naruto gashopon.

[aniki]

I enjoyed the tasteful way Gainax did the... the one scene that I don't want to mention because it will send people off on a tangent.Ah, forgot about that... The RightStuf DVD doesn't have the full footage of that scene - they were given the TV broadcast edit for mastering, which cut a couple of shots from that scene.

It's barely noticable though, and it's still pretty obvious. The rest of the series is uncut, as far as I know.

[Vicious27]

There's no good coming from people who download all their anime. If you want to use fansubs as a judge of what's likely to be coming up worth buying, that's one thing. It's entirely another to steal it all, and still claim to be a fan because you buy the occasional Naruto gashopon.

Now this I agree with and hence why I do not partake in it. I've just been talking about the music/soundtrack side of it on this thread. And lets face reality, the odds of finding an Anime soundtrack in your local Sam Goody or Coconuts, heck even the local indy guy, are very slim. Thats part of what my point has been

But every DVD I have is clean and legally bought. I don't have the time, energy or modem speed to download full episodes

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Also one of my favorite dubbing productions... well, specifically a certain director: Taliesin Jaffe. He's fan-freaking-tastically awesome and actually said "leet ninja skillz" in mock tone during R.O.D the TV vol. 5 commentary. It was great.
His choices made and work done in Hellsing and R.O.D the TV--and I think he also was involved in series such as Haibane Renmei, if I remember correctly--is astoundingly impressive.

Comments?

[aniki]

Also one of my favorite dubbing productions... well, specifically a certain director: Taliesin Jaffe. He's fan-freaking-tastically awesome and actually said "leet ninja skillz" in mock tone during R.O.D the TV vol. 5 commentary. It was great.Taliesin's cool. His Birmingham accent in Hellsing is very questionable, though.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Taliesin's cool. His Birmingham accent in Hellsing is very questionable, though.
Hahaha.... the best part is that people thought all the other Hellsing accents were the fake ones! XD

Yes, Jaffe is very American and his accent was in no way real.

[frogmaster42]

well fullmetal alchemist is a hell lot better than anything ! (my opinion ok )

[m2pt5]

well fullmetal alchemist is a hell lot better than anything ! (my opinion ok )
That doesn't mean you have to post it in EVERY FUCKING THREAD.

[Lore]

I'm new to this whole "anime" deal(only really got turned on to it a year or two ago after making friends with some hardcore anime fans), but I'd have to say that the state of anime is perfectly fine if you look outside of what makes it to broadcast television. I just saw the first few episodes of Burst Angel yesterday, and it looks like a fine show. Unfortunately, most of the current anime that I see right now seems to trend towards either action-oriented or drama-oriented, both of which usually bring down an anime for me(though they're not deal-breakers), because I'm a comedy man first and foremost. Example: At first I wasn't too interested in Bleach because all I ever saw/heard of it was "OMG THIS GUY IS HARD CORE AND HE KILLS THINGS", but after seeing this thread I'll have to actually give it a try if it actually has it's funny moments. I also tryed watching some of Gundam Seed at the request of a friend, but it is wayyy to melodramatic for me, nearly put me to sleep it did.

Like I said I like my anime to be somewhat comedic, be it scripted or unintentionally, but I haven't seen too much of that in recent anime serieses(the only ones that I have really seen so far being Excel Saga and Abenobashi, which I own the DVDs of now), so I've been searching the web for some older, campier serieses. I downloaded Project A-ko, and proceeded to blow people's minds with some of the crazy gender-bending shit they pull in that anime. Currently I'm keeping up with some torrents of Urusei Yatsura, created by the same person that made Ranma and Inuyasha. It's absurd.

Now if you don't mind, I'd like to make a quick aside into the whole piracy sub-thread thats been running through here so far:
<aside>
I'm a poor college student, so I have next to no money for anime. Most of what I see is either borrowed from friends or pirated. I'm a big proponent of the "try before you buy" philosophy, which you really can't do with alot of anime(but you can with manga, which is one of the reasons I have shitloads more manga than anime, that and it's cheaper). Of all the serieses that I've downloaded I fully intend to buy each and every one, because I believe in due compensation as well. This leads into my main defense of why I pirate: if you believe in the myth of "lost potential revenue" due to piracy, you're a blind fool. I'm quite sure the publishing companies would rather that I see a series that I can't afford through piracy, leading to me saving up to buy said series, than not see the series at all. You won't ever see me doing this with manga though, because it isn't hard for me to just pick a volume at my local bookstore and thumb through it before buying. I haven't seen any place that lets you watch the first 10-15 minutes of a DVD before purchasing it yet. I want to make my purchases count, due to me being poor and all, so I look at my piracy as a form of research if nothing else.
</aside>

Anyways, I think there's plenty of good stuff out there (if the manga I've been reading is any indication), you just have to look past whatever the current "Top 10" of anime is, or look into some older anime(there's some really cracktacular stuff that came out in the late 80's/early 90's).

Shit, has it been an hour already? Fuck, I have to get to work.

[GameCobra]

I haven't read everything in this topic, but here's my opinion. What they need is more voice actors like David Hayter. seriously, he knows how to voice act. infact, almost anyone in the whole MGS series has the best damn voice acting. i rather not say it, but games like MGS...? Why don't they make a better effort in games like this and in other Anime?

[aniki]

I haven't read everything in this topic, but here's my opinion. What they need is more voice actors like David Hayter. seriously, he knows how to voice act. infact, almost anyone in the whole MGS series has the best damn voice acting. i rather not say it, but games like MGS...? Why don't they make a better effort in games like this and in other Anime?
You're kidding. David "Colonel!?" Hayter's not that great, especially in Metal Gear Solid, and the direction really sucks. It's one of the most average, uninspired dubs I've heard.

[GameCobra]

I don't wnat to argue, but i know that he's a talented voice actor. What's wrong with his voicing? He gets the job done in voice acting very well. i don't hear anything wrong with his voice acting.

[radiopillows]

What the hell is this thread about? We're in the middle of some of the best anime being released ever. In fact, these days almost all anime comes stateside; even the horrible ones. Friggin Disney is releasing animes. Voice acting has never been better. The animation is absolutely superb. Since there is so much money to be made in it, people don't worry about making 100+ episode animes.

If you really think the 80's and 90's had better anime, you are really confused. Sure there were good animes, but there are many more better ones now.

[Akira]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[GameCobra]

What the hell is this thread about? We're in the middle of some of the best anime being released ever. In fact, these days almost all anime comes stateside; even the horrible ones. Friggin Disney is releasing animes. Voice acting has never been better. The animation is absolutely superb. Since there is so much money to be made in it, people don't worry about making 100+ episode animes.

If you really think the 80's and 90's had better anime, you are really confused. Sure there were good animes, but there are many more better ones now.

you know...you're right. i'm jsut tired of hearing bad puns however. i like the series of today, it's just ones on the FoxBox i can't stand. anything else though it's not.

[Travisty]

If you are complaining about Anime today, then you haven't seen Yakitate Japan.

[Rama]

Or Gankutsuou.

[radiopillows]

Samurai Champloo, Yakitate Japan, Eyeshield 21, Beck, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, and so many others versus two decades of Gundam, Macross, and Sailor Moon & clones. I mean come on people.

[Invader_BoB]

Hm, I wish I had something to say... Pancakes Own! but seriously i think as long as its entertaning i'll watch it.

[shawnson]

i never watch any animes on tv, considering the only ones on teletoon are beyblade and teen titans (*shudders*). i always ask one of my buddies who hooks me up with some great fan-subbed stuff. some of my favs out now are school rumble and mahou sensei negima. great stuff, although school rumble is licensed so i'm gonna hafta wait for the dvds to get subbed. all the mainstream/well-known series like naruto, inuyasha and sailor moon really never clicked to me, because they seemed really... generic. my favourite animes were mostly unknown to most people i knew, such as azumanga daioh, negima, and tsubasa. all of you go out and get those series because they are amazing!

[atomsk]

two decades of Gundam

Hey.

HEY.

Don't go there.

[Ashram]

Three things:

1) I also believe P2P downloading and the like as sampling is morally okay, if not legal. I had somewhere in the range of three GB of songs downloaded less than a month ago. Now that I have a job, not only have I not downloaded a song since, but I've been able to delete some of my collection since getting the actual CDs. I've never downloaded an anime, but then again, I'm very picky about what I get, I don't have the patience, and I'll probably buy it when I can.

2) Gundam Wing was a masterpiece, a war drama with political and social philosophy alongside giant robots. Others were merely okay.

3) I see no loss of quality of story. Likewise, I see no increase. Artists will always create art. Studios pump out the entertainment. Still, the new "clean" look a lot of shows are going for take away some of the realism 90's drawing styles added. Cowboy Bebop and Trigun had faded colors,so why do people see anything other than bright, flat colors as a bad thing?

[radiopillows]

Cowboy Bebop and Trigun had faded colors,so why do people see anything other than bright, flat colors as a bad thing? Wait, what? Cowboy Bebop and Trigun are both 90s anime.

[Ashram]

Yes, but it's the 2000s.

That was my point. Lately (very lately), people have begun to fear making things look unclean.

[radiopillows]

Yes, but it's the 2000s.

That was my point. Lately (very lately), people have begun to fear making things look unclean. And rightly so. If we have to spend 30 bucks a DVD, shouldn't they be high quality?

[Ashram]

I don't mean they're cleaning up the lines. I'm talking about sterilzing the color to the point where there's no life left in it. Almost as if before the show all the characters stand in line and get hosed down and covered in disinfectant. The drawing style is very real (for anime), but the colors just kill it.

[radiopillows]

I really have no idea what you're saying. Please give me an example. Are you saying everything is like Cowboy Bebop and Trigun with it's low-quality coloring?

[Ashram]

No, those are good. But I'm seeing some new anime (not dissing the story quality, just a visual pet peave), such as Witch Hunter Robin and whatever that new Ghost in the Shell cartoon is which use very flat coloring and make everything appear unnaturally clean. There is little to no suggestion of wear or tear in anything that isn't specifically damaged. In Bebop and Trigun, little details like a worn-out ship or a hazy background gave it more realism.

Sorry for the confusion, especially if I haven't cleared it up yet. It's just difficult to put into words.

[radiopillows]

Oh. I see what you're saying. I think that's just a style choice though. Some other animes aren't afraid to get down and dirty. FLCL for example.

[Karai Pantsu]

It's actually the "cheap and dirty" way to save a bit of money so you can make the scenes that count really cool.

I've heard it called 2 Shade style... they have a specific set of colors that they add 20% black to to get the shaded areas of the characters' and scenery' coloring. It's all mathematical and simple so it takes less time and money to get everything done.

[Travisty]

Gundam Wing was a masterpiece, a war drama with political and social philosophy

Aaaaahahahahahaha

[Exanimate Azrael]

2) Gundam Wing was a masterpiece, a war drama with political and social philosophy alongside giant robots. Others were merely okay.


What? Don't make me laugh. Gundam Wing was full of bishies and generic Five-person team heroes. Gundam 08th MS Team is where it's at.

[GameCobra]

Gundam Wing? >_> That was my first gundam series i ever watched. the series was hard to understand. but when i watched Gundam SEED, it was easier to understand.

I oughta find the other Gundams though. they WERE the originals.

[Karai Pantsu]

2) Gundam: The 08MS Team was a masterpiece, a war drama with political and social philosophy alongside giant robots. Others were merely okay.


Fixed..... fixed hard.

Jesus Christ.... that one scared me for a second...

[Ashram]

Fine, disagree with me if you want. But most of those responses were uncalled for.

See how well you make friends in the real world that way.

EDIT: For argument's sake, I've decided to clarify this.

1) I have not actually watched Gundam Wing in over two years. It is entirely possible that my memories are glazed over with nostalgia. Still, what I do remember was a bit more complex than you make it sound.

2) I have not seen the one you are referring to, but I have seen other Gundams. They failed to capture my interest after several viewings, so I gave up on them. I refer to these when I mention "others."

3) I don't understand why a simple disagreement of opinion, the very thing forums are supposed to support, is regarded with ridicule. I did not insult you nor your interests, and only expect the same in return. It's one thing to respectfully disagree, but just because you have an audience (http://img.penny-arcade.com/2004/20040319l.jpg) does not make it okay to brand someone the village idiot.

Really, if I'm going to make an ass of myself, I don't need any help.

[Travisty]

See how well you make friends in the real world that way.

I get by.

Lighten up.

[Karai Pantsu]

So, you've probably seen G Gundam, SEED and perhaps SEED Destiny, right?

None of the canon series? Stardust Memory? 0083?

You should watch the 0081-0083 series before thinking Gundam Wing is intense political commentary. Denobrium is still one of the ultimate Mechs ever made, and the REAL Zeon is an awesome batch of backstabbing Cobra-esuqe asshole villians.

[FullMetalAndrew]

May I say something...Thanks.
New anime is better than old. Because it looks better and is more nifty. If may or may not be raining. So...New Anime Wins.

[Rama]

What? Don't make me laugh. Gundam Wing was full of bishies and generic Five-person team heroes. Gundam 08th MS Team is where it's at.

Quoted for truth.

[Akira]

You should watch the 0081-0083 series before thinking Gundam Wing is intense political commentary. Denobrium is still one of the ultimate Mechs ever made, and the REAL Zeon is an awesome batch of backstabbing Cobra-esuqe asshole villians.
What? Don't make me laugh. Gundam Wing was full of bishies and generic Five-person team heroes. Gundam 08th MS Team is where it's at.
Both of which are quoted for emphasis...TO THE MAX.

[Ashram]

Okay, okay, I fucking get it! Damn, can't you stop stroking each others' e-penises long enough to realize that what I think doesn't amount to shit?

I don't care if you disagree. Just stop rubbing it in my face. I thought I was being pretty civil and frankly a little mature. I haven't seen the one you're talking about so I don't get the comparison, and I really hate that voicing your thoughts is a goddam crime these days.

Let off it already. If you want a thread about Gundam, I suggest you make one.

[Rama]

I saw nothing wrong with what you said, and was just agreeing with him, as I truly believe 08th MS Team is one of the best, if not the best Gundam series out there.

I'm pretty sure we're just agreeing and saying "yeah, I also think 08th MS Team is damn good" and you shouldn't see all these comments as attacks on you.

[Ashram]

Well, okay. That I can understand. I've just seen too many people online take a simple disagreement and turn it into some kind of grudge match. Really, I'm sure your opinions are as valid as anyone else's, and I just thought that since I didn't intend to insult anyone, that they shouldn't just mock me for thinking something different than they.

And the tendancy of many to jump on the bandwagon when there's a person to mock is uncanny. That's just how I viewed it because that's what I've seen elsewhere.

No hard feelings.

[shakujou]

i love both wing and 08th MS team! wing for outstanding action, and MS Team for applying mobile suits into "real world" war situations. It was really fun seeing how they applied average soldiers and the situations and tactics of war with that kind of technology.

((since i havne't read through all of the thread)) i don't quite think anime of today is worse than what it used to be, but i hate seeing DBZ esque (sp?) animes every once in awhile.

[Travisty]

Ashram, you really need to chill the fuck out.

[Seraphna]

Hey! HEY HEY!

...I liked Gundam Wing...

[Otaking]

Meh, I think Zeta is one of the best Gundam series ever.

[Seraphna]

My true love is Gundam X though, little known series it seems.

[Karai Pantsu]

My true love is Gundam X though, little known series it seems.

SPACE LASERS FROM THE MOON!

Gundam X was a little silly.. but it was definately better than Wing, and I enjoyed it enough that I liked it despite its faults. Which is all you can really ask for.

And have you seen 08th MS team yet? Cuz, holy crap, it's the best ever.

[Travisty]

I liked G Gundam for the hilarious sterotyping. The Mexican gundam had a freaking giant sombrero bolted to it's head. I'm surpirsed the French guys gundam didn't just surrender as soon as the fight started.

[Otaking]

My true love is Gundam X though, little known series it seems.

Gundam X is my favorite of all the Gundam series. Only reason most people don't know about it is because it hardly got noticed after the wake of Wing.

I love the Double X.

[Exanimate Azrael]

I liked G Gundam for the hilarious sterotyping. The Mexican gundam had a freaking giant sombrero bolted to it's head. I'm surpirsed the French guys gundam didn't just surrender as soon as the fight started.


I liked that one too. It's "GUNDAM WRESTLING! RAW ON SATURDAY NIGHT! *insert people's eyebrow/elbow*" ahaha....funny stuff.

And I liked how the countries were just like...floating lucky charms-like country-shaped asteriods. Though I died laughing when they brought out the....the....statue of liberty....cannon...OMFG..
:lol:

[Ashram]

Ashram, you really need to chill the fuck out. I believe I said no hard feelings.

Kinda thought that would show I was okay about it now.

Really, I apologized and everything. Not a problem anymore. I'm mellow.

[Dr.Gonzo]

It's a very common misconception that somehow anime today has done anything but get better. Mostly that derives from, as Scott showed us, the rape and disembowling most anime gets when it gets imported to a TV syndicated US series. Fact is, the Japanese acting is still very top notch, as Anime is a primary source of entertainment in Japan, not just a marketing ploy like it is over here. Japanese voice actors are highly revered and treated with the same amount of worship and awe as we treat many live action actors here in the states.

If you feel anime is getting worse, please, go watch some fansubs and get back to us.

Couldn't have said it better myself